Critique Groups

If I could give only one piece of advice to those who want to write for children and teens, it would be to find a good critique group and make a commitment to it. I value my critique group more than you can imagine. Some of us have been in it for more than 10 years, while others are fairly new. They are all amazing writers, and as we have evolved, we have learned what works for us. Most importantly, we have learned how to offer really useful and necessary critiques, which is definitely a skill that can be learned and perfected and which doesn't necessarily just happen.

How to find or form a critique group:

One easy way is to check out the SCBWI walk-in critique groups via the web site. These are walk-in groups, so you can simply arrive and check it out. You might find others with whom you'd like to start a regular group.

While on the web site, you can also contact one of our region's critique group coordinators to get their help in finding others near you.

Attend local writing events, including SCBWI meetings and conferences, where you might meet others to form a group or others who are looking for a new group member.

Post on the SCBWI Utah/southern Idaho Facebook page and see if others want to form a group with you.


How do critique groups work?

There are several logistical choices available to a group.

PLACE and FREQUENCY: Some groups meet weekly, others monthly. Some are online groups. The group might have to try different meeting options to find what works best for that unique group of people. My critique group meets in one another's homes. I've been in other groups that meet in a public place or the home of just one group member or a mentor.

MANUSCRIPT SUBMISSION: I've seen this issue handled dozens of ways. In one group we brought several copies of our submissions to the meeting, where each person would receive a copy to read along as the author read out loud. This was fun for me, as I love being read to, but it had some limitations as far as critiques. Reading aloud took up much of our meeting time, and the critiques usually weren't very in-depth, as the readers never had time to ponder or reread the piece. My current critique group sends in 1-2 chapters (we are all working on novels, so this works for us) about a week before the group meets. It is up to each group member to read all the submissions before coming to the meeting. Then we use our meeting time more efficiently, as we jump right into critiques. Some groups do only a few pages of each manuscript each time, while others will do large chunks. How you handle this depends on a lot of factors, such as how many people are in the group, how much each person is writing between meetings, and how much time you have during a meeting. My group meets on Saturday evenings, so we can take more or less time if we feel like it. A group I used to be in met on Wednesday evenings and had only two hours to get through about eight manuscripts, so we were very focused and limited.

NUMBER OF PEOPLE: I think the ideal size of a critique group is somewhere between 3-8 people. More than that is just unwieldy in terms of having enough time to give each person a useful critique. You want at least three people so you have a diversity of opinions. I value the varied opinions of my critique group members, because if they ALL agree, I am pretty certain what needs to be revised. And if they don't all agree, I can pick and choose which approach I might take.

HOW TO CRITIQUE: This is the crucial piece. Some people like to focus on commas and spelling. That's not critique. I suggest focusing on questions. If something brings up a question for a reader, that is useful information for the author. If you're writing a mystery, those questions may be exactly what you're going for. On the other hand, maybe you thought you were being really clear, but the critiquers' questions indicate you need to do some revising to get at the clarity you want. Another way to look at the big picture is to think about the main elements like character, setting, plot, world building, etc. Sometimes it's fun to bring some useful exercises or information from any conference or workshop you've attended and focus on that element in all the manuscripts. The "sandwich" critique is always a nice way to approach a work: say the things you like in the manuscript, then concentrate on problem areas, then end with more nice things.

CHOOSING/ADDING MEMBERS: Our critique group is straightforward and sometimes ruthless. We are all veteran critiquers who are used to the give and take of brutal critique (not mean or harsh, but just absolutely honest), and not everyone is up for that. Some people have less thick skins and require a softer approach. We screen any potential new members to make sure they are up for our kind of blunt critique. If everyone can be honest about what they are ready for, it helps. I find it's also helpful if all the members of the group are writing in the same genre--such as picture books or YA. One magazine writer in a group I used to be in felt like her two pages each month versus everyone else's full chapter was just not a fair give and take. She was not the best fit for the group.

My best advice is to find a group of fellow children's writers and jump in. Be patient with each other and with the process as you find your way as a unit. If you feel like you don't know what you're doing, maybe occasionally bring in a more experienced author for some mentoring, or do some research. There are plenty of books on starting critique groups. Attending conferences and workshops will also teach you skills that will help you improve your critiquing skills.

by Neysa CM Jensen
in Boise, Idaho

Your team, your corner, or in other words, your critique group

I'm a lucky person.
At the beginning of my writing journey, a friend of mine with more experience than me raved about her critique group. I so wanted to be part of it, or one similar to it. So four years ago, I sent a request on the Utah Children's Writers Yahoo group, to see who'd like to start a new critique group.

Five people replied, and then, another friend, who had just started on her writing journey, expressed her interest in joining too. Two people dropped out because of personal reasons, but the remainder ones are the same. There are five of us, and we meet (or try to) once a month. Once a month we also post a chapter on Google Drive, which has worked perfectly for us. There are times during the year when it's very hard to arrange to meet. So we post on Google Drive and leave our comments online. Sometimes we post 10 pages, others a little more. I've been trying to finish my current work in progress, and my group has been super supportive as I post more than 10 pages. Also, when I need emergency help with my query letter or my pages for a contest, they always agree to give me a hand.

What I have loved the most about having a writing group is the encouragement. Even though they've read a lot of my stories, some of them of dismal first-draft quality, this is the first time they've actually critiqued a book of mine from idea to NaNo wreck to final draft. They give me encouragement when my spirits are low, and when I'm doing better, they encourage me to do my best.

I love my Sharks and Pebbles.

As an introvert I love working solo, but writing doesn't have to be solitary. In fact, it can't be. I need my team behind me; my corner telling me I can do this.

What about you?

Leave a comment to tell us about your critique group. Does is have a name? Do you meet in person? Online? Do you want to find a critique group?

Maybe if you're looking for your writerly BFFs, you can find your match here.

Working a Writing Group into Your Busy Utah Schedule

Let's face it, Utahns have extraordinarily busy lives. Between work, larger-than-average families, time-consuming religious obligations, a tendency to be involved in our communities, outdoor activities in our mountains and canyons, our habit of putting our kids (and ourselves) into cultural activities like dance, music, and sports, and the countless hours we spend arguing about who will win The Big Game, our lives are jam-packed with stuff that crowds our schedules. It's amazing that we can work in writing time, much less time for a writing group.

I've been in two groups in Utah. Both have been mostly good about getting together regularly, but there are definitely challenges. In the first group, those challenges eventually led to the group dissolving.

The group I'm in now, along with some of the other contributors to this blog, has found a workable solution over the course of the past couple years. The solution has been mentioned in this blog before, but not for a while, so I'll spill our secret for all of you right now.

Google Drive (formerly known as Google Docs).

We try to meet once a month in person, but sometimes it's hard to make our five busy schedules work together to get a second meeting (two a month seems to be our magic number, where my former group tried to meet weekly). In fact, there are many months, especially during the summer and the holiday season, when getting together once is difficult, or when some of us can meet, but not all. Because we are all writing and revising, having both meetings is important. Any fewer than two and it slows our progress.

Taking it online has made the difference and kept us going. The way we do it is fairly simple.

In a perfect month we meet once near the beginning of the month, and critique online in the second half. Or, if schedules don't work out, we'll flip that. And if necessary, we'll do both critiques online for a month.

When we meet in person, we try to post our scenes (about ten pages, again, a length that works for us) in Word format a few days early for pre-reading, but we don't make a big deal about it if one of us (too often this guy ) does not have time to read the stuff ahead of time. We keep things fairly unstructured and fluid, mostly to work around our crazy schedules.

When we critique online, we set a due date, then post somewhere around that date, using email to alert each other than our latest stuff is up and ready to be run through our mental shredders. We critique online, using Google's comment feature to mark up a manuscript and to discuss the comments left by others, then we leave a general impression of the piece at the end of the document.

We also find it useful to write a summary at the top of the document, a synopsis reminding us where we are in the story and what went on before. This helps us get started.

Because editing in Google is in real-time, we occasionally edit at the same time as another person. This does not create any problems, and can sometimes be creepy or fun while we watch another person type magically on our screen.

When necessary, like when one of us has a deadline for a submission or when we want to go over queries, we'll post off-schedule and ask that anybody who has time jump in and take a quick look. This has also worked well.

Google Drive offers another useful feature. You can set up a group calendar with the group's schedule and other special events, like signings, publication dates, birthdays, or whatever. We haven't been consistent about using our calendar, but we could be, and maybe should be.

By going online, we can work our critiques into our schedules, even when our schedules conflict, as they so often do. Online groups are frequently larger than in-person groups, especially if some people in the group are writing less, but we find that the same five members submitting about ten pages twice a month works both in person and online.

Our most enjoyable critique sessions are, of course, the ones that happen when we're in the same room. They result in good discussions, and we can more easily bounce ideas off each other. Also, most of us find it useful (if not always enjoyable) to read our work aloud to the group. It's amazing what you can find when you read aloud. That could be a blog post of its own.

However, our online critiques have other advantages that we don't have in person, such as the amount of time we can spend (especially if we can't find time to pre-read) and, as I said, the ability to work critiques into the rare gaps in our personal schedules.

For the Sharks & Pebbles, combining the two techniques works wonderfully, and gives us what we need. Every group is different, but this works for us. Maybe it will work for you.

My group

My critique group is fantastic.

We’ve only been meeting for sixth months or so but we clicked at the outset. Our schedule is ideal – often enough though, not overwhelming. We deal with something regularly, sending 2000 words one week, meeting live to discuss them the next. It keeps us on task and with only four of us, time is very manageable.

It’s a drive for all of us, arriving from Brigham City to Salt Lake and points in between. But they’re worth the trip. We’re dedicated writers, committed to craft. We all attended WIFYR this summer. We view the world from differing time frames, with one each in our 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s (until one of us messed that up by advancing to the next decade). We vary in culture and lifestyle as well. Each brings to the table a unique perspective. And they are sharp.

After WIFYR, we dispersed. Summer family plans made critiquing hard to arrange. We’re back now and these people are just as good as they were last June. I was ready for a beta read to which they readily agreed. Explicit instructions were for them to take their time, a full MS more than our 2000 word limit. That would give me time to spend on a new endeavor.

Those little over-achievers didn’t listen. They returned it the next session. And they’ve forced me back into the old project. I’m really tired of that timeworn thing, but their counsel is amazing, advancing it toward completion.

Yet, at times their guidance is discomforting. They tell me things I disagree with or don’t want to hear, things that chip away at the story’s foundation. A few days later I come around to see they are right. Or I figure out a way to ignore them or work around their ideas. But mostly they’re right.

I’m revising now, as per their suggestions. The rougher edges are being smoothed out, the wholes getting plugged. I’m free to disregard their suggestions or be impressed by their insight. I hope I contribute as much as I take.

Thanks, people.

The Proper Care and Receiving of Criticism

By Julie Daines

As writers, we are constantly putting our writing out there for critique. We have writing groups, beta-readers, we win a critique from someone, we get a rejection letter enumerating all that is wrong with our story. It's a tough business and we need a thick skin.

So let's talk a little about how to receive criticism. Some of it is valuable, some of it--not so much. How do you know what to accept and what to reject?

First of all, consider the source. If an agent or editor tells you the story is too slow or the voice is off, listen. Agent feedback is valuable and almost always spot on.

When it comes to your writing group, they feel it is their job to point out as many problems as possible. If they have no negative feedback they feel they are failing at their responsibility so they may dwell on the nit-picky. As we say in my group, scraping the bottom of the barrel. Consider their advice and then go with your gut reaction.

Non-writer feedback can be useful because they tend to look at the story as a whole. But if your writing falls outside of their preferred genre, their feedback could mean nothing.

Second, pay attention to the feedback's level. Criticism that considers the story as a whole is more valuable than the nit-picky. If a reader mentions overall plot issues, says the story didn't hook them, it was confusing, didn't care about the main characters, too much repetition, too slow--those are red flags. Listen up and fix it.

If the feed back is full of nit-picky small stuff then those are the kinds of changes you think about and then go with what you feel is right for your story.

If a reader says your story just really isn't their thing, no problem. Move on. They are not the target audience.

In the end, all criticism is based on personal opinion and should be carefully considered. Most writers and readers that offer feedback are well-meaning and want to help you write the best story you can, so don't get offended or disheartened by negative comments. Listen to them, think about why that person said what they did, and then use those comments to strengthen your writing.

What are your tips for receiving (or giving) criticism?

Coincidentally, I just noticed that Mary Kole wrote an excellent article on agent vs. paid editorial feedback and why agents say the things they do. Check it out.

Nine Problems

Erin Shakespear

In March I was lucky enough to be in a critique group led by Jennifer Nielson, author of The False Prince, at Writing for Charity .

Each of the participants shared the first pages of their novels. And as they did so, I jotted down common problems that came up...

#1: Info Dumps

Don't try to dump a whole ton of info into your reader's lap in the first chapter. Start in some action. Let the details about the awesome world you've created trickle out.

#2: Emotional Immediacy

Give the sense of immediacy, the emotional tension. What is at stake at the beginning? Whatever it is, move it to the first page. Make sure your reader knows what the risk is for your main character. Are they scared? Lonely? Sad? Worried about something? Running away? Hiding? Make sure we know what is bothering your main character because then we, as the reader, will be bothered, too. And we'll keep reading!

#3: Right Age

If you're writing for middle graders, make sure you don't make your characters too old. And, of course, this is something you have to think about for any book or story you write. For example, you don't see a whole lot of ninety year old men as the main character in picture books. For some reason, toddlers just don't identify with them. Although, they have a lot in common when you think about it...like lack of teeth.

#4: Something Wrong

Jennifer said, "It's the wrongness that turns the page." Yes, start with problems! Not with the world at peace.

#5: Time Periods

Give some hint right off the bat what time period you've set your book in. Don't make us swim around trying to figure out where we're at. It's like those big maps at the mall with the "You Are Here" signs. We need to know where, or rather, when we're at. Give us a sign.

#6: Description

Watch your adverbs and adjectives. I know they're super crazy amazingly fun, but seriously, watch how many of these fabulous words you decide to add into your lovely work of great fiction.

Yeah. There can definitely be too much of a good thing.

#7: Prologues

If you have to write one, just make sure it isn't bad.

#8: Summarize

You need to be able to summarize your story in just a few short sentences. If someone asks you to tell them briefly about your novel and you need oodles of paragraphs to get the point across....mmmmmm....you need to find a way to condense it a bit. Maybe your story is too complicated? Or maybe you don't actually know what it's truly about yet? I don't know. But something is amiss.

#9: Start with a bang! (which is very similar to #4, but it's worth repeating)

Start with excitement. Trouble. Mayhem. Chaos. Don't have blah and boring beginning. Really look at how you start. Are you serving your reader plain oatmeal without sugar and hoping they'll keep eating it?

Or are you giving them something better? Like brown sugar oatmeal with raisins, cinnamon and butter.

Mmmmm...I know what I'm making for breakfast...

Crituque Group Ideas

I was a little nervous to join a critique group.
The reasons? I wasn't sure my work was good enough or my skin tough enough.
Now that I'm in a group, I can attest that those reasons are true BUT only AFTER the critique. I have to put away the edited chapter for about ten days before I can fix it and that's okay. I work on other writing in the meantime.
Because of my group (we should come up with a name!) I've been able to see my weaknesses and hopefully work on them while I write.
Because of my group, I've been able to recognize my strengthens as well.

Here are a few ideas/questions for creating a critique group:

• Do want the group to be genre specific or general? Fiction vs. nonfiction?
• 4-5 people are a good start on a group. The group needs to have rules for adding members or bringing people to the group.
• Pick a day, time, how often and how long to meet.
• Does everyone need to bring a chapter each meeting? Do you want to focus on one piece or give everyone a turn? You might need to set a time limit for each piece as well. Do you want everyone to email their work to the group ahead of time or bring a hard copy and read aloud?
• What is the commitment level of the group? Be there every meeting? Is everyone okay if someone doesn't show up for months?
• Pick a location that works for everyone. At a home or restaurant or library, what your group decides.
• Have phone list including cell. Also, Facebook, Yahoo or Google list is a great way to stay connected. Work can also be sent through a couple of these groups to the critique group.
• Don't talk about others work outside of the group.
• Critique the writing, not the writer.

How to Get the Most Out of A Critique Group

I've been in a dedicated critique group, consisting of a former publisher and a published authors for the past year and a half. There have been amazing benefits, not only for my writing but also in enjoying the works of others.

So here are a few things I've noticed maximize the critique group experience:

1. Avoid Explanation/Defending Your Writing. The more you have to explain to others, the more editing you have to do. We have one member of our critique group who just nods when we pose questions and takes notes. The group also feels more open to express opinion.

2. Come Prepared With Questions. Kickstart the discussion with one or two thoughtful questions about character, plot or pacing. Help steer the discussion towards the weaker parts of your writing. It also doesn't hurt to ask what your fellow group members think you are doing well.

3. Critique Strengths & Weaknesses of Others. Authors come to critique groups for several reasons, but gaining support from fellow authors is one of them. Of course positive critique is essential, but helping your group members understand what they do well can help them play to their strengths.

4. Ignore Punctuation/Copyline Editing. This will inevitably be a waste of time. Each publishing company has it's own way of doing things.

5. Sleep On It. Wait overnight, or at least a day before tackling the suggestions you brought home from your critique group. Initially, if you've got a good group and you've listened well, you'll come home pretty wounded. But after you've had a good night's sleep, you'll start to get excited about the changes you're going to make.

What suggestions do you have for members of critique groups?

Tiffany Dominguez
Freelance Writer
Young Adult Fiction